Athletico Easthamico 11:19 Sat Oct 8
Was Arkle overrated?
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The horse was before my time but obviously I've seen the footage and heard enough about Arkle to believe he was the best chaser ever.
But was he really 21lb better than Kauto Star?
Are we to believe he would have beaten Dessie by 30 lengths in the King George?
That he would have given 2 stone to Denman in the Hennesy?
Should the ratings be revised?
Anybody ever see him race?
Timeform ratings below.
Arkle 1957 212
Flyingbolt 1959 210
Sprinter Sacre 2006 192p
Mill House 1957 191
Kauto Star 2000 191
Desert Orchid 1979 187
Dunkirk 1957 186
Burrough Hill Lad 1976 184
Moscow Flyer 1994 184
Long Run 2005 184
Master Oats 1986 183
Denman 2000 183
Don Cossack 2007 183
Captain Christy 1967 182
Carvill's Hill 1982 182
See More Business 1990 182
Best Mate 1995 182
Azertyuiop 1997 182
Kicking King 1998 182
Well Chief 1999 182
Cue Card 2006 182
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Replies - In Chronological Order ( Show Newest Messages First)
Takashi Miike
11:32 Sat Oct 8
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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i don't agree with Denman's rating, he hadn't even reached his peak when they discovered his heart problem, and there's no way he'd have lost getting two stone round Newbury
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Sesar
11:32 Sat Oct 8
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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What has this got to do with West Ham?
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Takashi Miike
11:33 Sat Oct 8
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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...........and where is Golden Miller?
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neilalex
11:55 Sat Oct 8
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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I think Mill House was at least as good as Borough Hill Lad who was a huge powerhouse of a horse, and the best of those I've seen along with Kauto Star and Desert Orchid. In any era other than Arkle's, Mill House would have been a multiple Gold Cup winner. Arkle destroyed, utterly annihilated Mill House so I don't think he was overrated. If you look at some of the races he ran his performances were absurdly good, particularly when giving away absolute lumps of weight.
The Dancing Brave of National Hunt.
*Waits for KIA and Northern Sold*
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Athletico Easthamico
11:56 Sat Oct 8
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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I guess Timeform couldn't go back far enough to evaluate Golden Miller.
I thought Denman would be much nearer Kauto Stars rating seeing he beat him 2-1 in Gold Cup clashes.
Seeing as athletes get faster as time go by and they re-rated flat horses when Frankel came along I would think they could close the gap on the ratings unless Arkle was an absolute freak.
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onlyoneclydebest
11:58 Sat Oct 8
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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I'd ignore timeform ratings,Desert Orchid rated better than Burrough Hill Lad? No chance and where's Dawn Run?
Big squiggle from me
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neilalex
12:00 Sun Oct 9
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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Yes, I did wonder about Dawn Run.
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Athletico Easthamico
12:06 Sun Oct 9
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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Borough Hill Lad could have got even better but injury curtailed his career, but yes, I would have him in front of Dessie.
Dawn Run could have won a few Gold Cups but the silly cunts went for the brick wall fences in France and we know what happened then :-(
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neilalex
12:19 Sun Oct 9
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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Different horses really in terms of optimum distance, but I'm not sure I would, mainly on the back of Dessie having won the Gold Cup as well as dominating the King George (bit like Wayward Lad). However, no doubt that BHL was fucked by injury.
Neither of them would have got within a mile of Arkle as far as I can tell.
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gank
1:59 Sun Oct 9
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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This may as well all be in Chinese. Fuck all to do with West Ham, take it to any of the hundreds of racing fora.
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the coming of gary
2:02 Sun Oct 9
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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... Special mention for L'Escargot , who won the gold cup twice, and then thrashed Red Rum to win the Grand National
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Saul Bollox
2:16 Sun Oct 9
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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I was fortunate enough to be at Sandown Park when he took on all of the greatest chasers of the era giving many of them two stone. The great Mill House out jumped Arkle for most of the race, but when Arkle's rider let him loose he raced away from the field and won by about 25 lengths and took 17 (SEVENTEEN) seconds off the course record. There is no doubt in my mind that Desert Orchid and Kauto Star would not have lived with Arkle and yes he could have given them the weight and still won.
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gph
2:27 Sun Oct 9
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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Yes.
It was a horse, and it was famous.
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chad sexington
2:45 Sun Oct 9
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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The last pics of milhouse show he was obese and definitely not fighting weight. Yellow and black hoops didn't suit him. He'd never been used at stud either.
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boleynkid
1:12 Sun Oct 9
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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That good they had to come up with a two-tier handicap system when he raced.
The best ever ? of course he was........by a country mile.
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Far Cough
1:26 Sun Oct 9
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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Absolutely, Arkle was the best jumper of all time, he destroyed other horses by carrying crippling weights
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Far Cough
1:26 Sun Oct 9
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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Oh and that Timeform rating is spot on
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Far Cough
1:34 Sun Oct 9
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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Saul Bollox 2:16 Sun Oct 9
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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Saul Bollox
4:10 Sun Oct 9
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
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Reply the coming of gary 2:02 Sun Oct 9
Re: Was Arkle overrated?
... Special mention for L'Escargot , who won the gold cup twice, and then thrashed Red Rum to win the Grand National
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He was no snail then?
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